Narratives from Africa and the Diaspora: Filmaking in Africa
Abstract
- Abstract
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In April 2023 the Africa Multiple Cluster of Excellence hosted this conversation with filmmaker Jean-Pierre Bekolo and scholar Alexie Tcheuyap at @kunst-undkulturhausneunein8931.
Jean-Pierre Bekolo is a filmmaker from Cameroon. He is considered to be one of the avant-garde filmmakers from the continent with a large oeuvre of 30 years suggesting each time new topics and new approaches to film genres and narrative modes.
Alexie Tcheuyap is Professor of French and Postcolonial Studies at the University of Toronto, where is hold the position of Associate Vice-President & Vice-Provost. He has published extensively on the subject of African literatures, film and media, and is a member of the Royal Society of Canada.
Origins & context
- Title
- Narratives from Africa and the Diaspora: Filmaking in Africa
- Language
- English
- Date
- June 11, 2023
Identifiers & sources
Full text
- Transcript
- uh good evening everybody this is my my name is ultra fendtler I'm a member of the cluster and it's my pleasure to welcome you tonight for a very special getting together with two special guests I'm very honored that they accepted our invitation to be here tonight so there's Professor Alexi triap and there's a filmmaker Jean-Pierre Piccolo I will say a little bit more about those the two persons who we'll be discussing tonight uh Professor Alexi choyap is professor at the University of Toronto he's a specialist in African francophone literatures and film with a focus on West Africa and Cameron mainly but he has widely published on on literatures on violence on Boko Haram on intertextuality so very very very very widely published so I'm very happy that he made it here from Toronto just for two days to be with us tonight so welcome professoria okay [Applause] and Professor Chia will so have a conversation with Jean-Pierre bekulu and I'm also very happy we are all very honored and happy that he also made it to buy Royals he has come he has been here several times he's uh I would say something like the orphan Teri bloody Cinema Franko fall but also the same time the the avant-garde filmmaker one of those ones who always sets the pace and also new themes and also new static um categories I would say so from its very first film in the 90s to his I don't know where to start I guess you will talk about this but he he also he in kind of invented let's say jar that haven't been there in African Cinema on the continent with the first Science Fiction with the first queer film um but then also a very political film about the city political situation and Cameroon with the president up to rule one of his more recent films about the afrodescendant population in Colombia so the LCC is a very large range of films and themes not to forget the documentaries also with a lot of interviews with intellectuals and very hot topics on on the continent also he's a fellow at the University of bayreuth so he will stay with us for a couple of months till the end of July and his project deals now with the concept of healing cinnamon I think they will discuss also this New Concept that you will work on in by right and you might have more chances and possibilities to exchange with him about this healing Cinema concept um so with four no further Ado I would like to hand over to Jean Pierre bekulu but first of all welcome also to Jean-Pierre pukulos [Music] so the floor is is yours and hand over to Jean-Pierre bakulu okay thank you good evening so it's a pleasure to be here uh and uh thank you UTI and I think it's a good start you know because uh when I was taught that I have to make I don't know a discussion with Alexi I said what kind of theme what kind of angle should we tackle or should I at least so I just told him the team because he didn't know what I was planning to do so the whole idea is actually to question our ability to to change the continent as filmmaker as intellectual scholar I usually say that when somebody doesn't understand a book he thinks he's not smart enough but when he doesn't understand the fame you think the filmmaker is not smart enough so it's really in Balance you know Cinema is not made for people who are smart anyway you know it's always for those who are not able to kind of do something very um uh I would say we're not very very educated in Cameroon most of the time around Cinemas back in the days that's where all the gangsters were actually it was like the base of the gangsters so but the serious question actually is actually how is Cinema you know because that's what I can talk about able to help with transformation of our societies which the question I throw also to the intellectuals you know since you guys have been going to school what has changed you know in Africa so I would really start with some images and then I'll talk through these images then hopefully you will be able to to continue okay so to add to this time period because now that we know as a so you imagine um your future of 2015 in 2005. so um now we are 15 years later and we are nearly nearly at to uh and I think um so I don't know how how it is right now basically I I was asked to to teach a class uh about what they call semiotics okay so if you can see something just watch like 15 minutes then I come back it was more like an experimental movie okay I really liked how the story um when we already or in the beginning we didn't know where the women are going okay so can that's enough okay um the the the the the reason why I start with zoom is because uh here we spend all our lives studying how to work with images see image language and then comes kovid then confinement and the only thing we do with this wonderful medium is to show our ugly faces so what is the whole point of just showing the face and talking while we study all the language of Cinema we learn how to be able to create a storyline a narration and dramatic structure whatever we studied and um so I thought maybe we should start thinking about the medium we use and to kind of invade them you know and to kind of get into Zoom for example and turn it into a film medium so I think I don't know who is very excited about just watching people's faces you know think Cinema has enough elements to kind of help us to kind of do better okay so this is the theme how to become a therapeutic intellectual you know I don't know if I can explain more about it or develop but therapeutic really here came from obviously what I was saying before the the fact that the whole culture of of inter-intellectual actually came from somewhere you know because Africa is an invention as we just read you know we didn't uh the whole colonize the colonizing system came with so many things including the whole idea of being an intellectual but I'll start with one of the subjects that is a little bit trendy it was about the art objects being sent back to Africa I don't know how to translate [Music] it is foreign foreign [Laughter] foreign [Music] generation foreign [Music] this is a film that I made just mainly Talking Heads about this idea of returning African objects that have been in Europe that was stolen and whatever so uh and it was it's very interesting for me topic because it's actually showing a lot about this identity you know this is something that belonged to Africa went to Europe Maybe by force or stolen now it's coming back and it becomes an issue so just to stand up say who who are we who is this invented Africa which is a concept from from so the the whole idea of being in that kind of territory clearly uh and with the concept we need to manipulate and how to kind of be this agent of transformation is actually for me really tricky so I'll go to the next hopefully um [Music] the last one is um he passed away unfortunately he collected Cameroon music since 1940s and create kind of music archive for cameroonians and obviously nobody was interested you know and he passed away and I think his archives are kind of there you know and he was telling me how you wish that at least this archive will be you know like used for something but I remember we tried everything to kind of interest in government nobody really was interested and then before um and French but they were talking the different people were talking we're talking about one was talking about the secret how still tradition is so secret that we don't even know how people will be able to learn as it's uh from all these artifacts that are gone with all these secret societies and um and the first one was at a t-shirt Berlin he was actually saying the problem with um with the all these uh um easy discourse you know it's sure that once the objects are gone we and how and having now kind of Western discourse they'll come back to Cameroon with the Western discourse so for him they are not African objects anymore and unless we find another discourse to be able to to kind of present them um [Music] okay now we get into the real topic so obviously this is a film I made called the president that was banned in Cameroon but it was a fair mainly showing one of the problem we have long lasting regime and whatever you can imagine foreign [Music] [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] president Japanese responsibility [Music] so um as I was saying we live in societies we would like to transform mainly I guess all over the world but I think in Africa it's more even in the feeling of that we need to change the society we need to make sure at least the minimum we don't even talk about moral but the minimum is done so I in obviously our practice as filmmakers and intellectuals I think a lot of people are addressing these questions and and it's one of the things um for me that sometimes make um what we do sound irrelevant or or feeling that maybe there's something else that needs to be done um obviously now the question is how is knowledge helping because we suppose that knowledge is actually a kind of tool I guess otherwise universities wouldn't be that important so how is knowledge you know really uh connecting with that need of transformation obviously I can only look at it as a filmmaker on a filmic aspective perspective there's an interview here I did within Bay is Congolese philosopher or whatever he's been teaching a Duke for many years he's worked on 30 languages and we made a film of four hours and obviously he's very he has a very clear idea about all these questions um now [Music] inspirational a system for me um like that in the actors and Alcatel company a prophetic uh or later you don't like traditional oxidation functions speak speak ing um Spurs Rua shake his purse can't relax really well Shakey's first problem economic capitalist impulse is [Music] a certain person uh the Lord comprehension the circus economy politics individual explore the possibility the result was a problem contribution learn contribution application DVD who don't associate no uh yes I think this one is a big chapter because film is four hours but very clearly uh he was able to help to go back to understand what are the different type of intellectuals come from church you know that's where the tradition of preaching on Sunday is kind of all ritual I've been taught in seminars seminaries so now they kind of went this model is the one that became the university one and then he talks about the prophetic one which is he's explained very well so now the question was obviously uh looking at again the unability or our need or Envy to to be able to transform our society obviously to kind of think how knowledge you know affect all that so I kind of decided to look at the African intellectuals obviously the model of sengar is very interesting I guess is the one in francophone area at least that really Define what intellectual is supposed to be what is very interesting is that he became very quickly a political figure at the same time he was a poet founder of the negative so I think uh um I don't think he thought at University but he was really the the moral of the transforming intellectual as he was I think first minister in one of the government in France and then the mayor of TS before he became president and he was Independence also at the same time so Senora has been you know really like this model of the intellectual any transforming one you know uh here I was trying to say I think I want to show maybe a clip of one of the film I made because um the whole connection with Fred with the um with a sengar and the French language you know sorry I'm lost the French language is really important I made a film called miraculous weapons based on msc's text I mean the title only which is miraculous and that film is actually um uh the story of a prisoner in love with French language hoping that on prisoner and death row hoping that French language might save him from Death that's all I don't know okay so permission for visits of a maximum of four hours may be obtained through the warden for those of us oblige those my name is Stephanie Foucault I'm your French teacher uh uh I will repeat it in French okay um I'm a law student I've decided to give some French classes in order to get closer to the castle system you see so um Revolution why is it so important to you that French is a language of French Revolution they want to bring Revolution here no but you know it's just because words are important you know win don't have to teach you to to to talk with nothing it's useless useless shoes um you understand what I mean yeah you listen yes yes um so Limu so they um you see so you who are you in our world I am a [ __ ] illegal slave I am a victim of the capitalistic structure of our societies my name is okoroko I am a man who dreams of a society without privileges where pigmentation of skin would be nothing but simple accident I am a man who is conscious that he is a victim of Oppression because of his so-called race I would like to force to oblige those who tried in vain to reduce me to a status of an animal for centuries just because of the color of my skin I would like to oblige to force them to see me you don't see me to recognize me as a human I am a racist racist okay so this is a little bit long but um yeah but further down yes he's actually explaining how the French language in Saturday he was I heard about satra and then that's why he decided to study French because he heard that some people think they can fight oppression through the French language that was his definition of neglitude so that's that's for that one um I'm lost now that then so yeah let's continue with Cinema yes intellectual yeah so that was for the French intellectual yeah that's a clip we saw just now yeah the same critic intellectual I love this one I don't know if you heard about people who are at the same time Chief Professor Dr traditional whatever and Poets so we had this picture you saw before is the case is a minister in Cameroon but he's all these things at the same time his Minister doctor Professor traditional Chief and everything so the question being really how all this work together why the need of all this you know in transformation of society obviously the preaching is what we heard before by modern Bay the whole idea of just hoping that by talking by telling people things obviously Society will change and now we reaching also the whole education system that obviously was like a kind of Western model like brought to uh Africa and with people obviously learning you know Western model of Education obviously which was because of invention and also and I like this one too the whole idea of solutions double milky when he was president and there was this kind of HIV crisis he said we need and you call it African Solutions obviously a lot of people died but waiting for the African solution that didn't come but the whole concept of that there are so many problems in Africa but most of the solutions are not African and maybe that's also why the transformation is kind of difficult obviously yeah these are cases of non-intellectual transformation even if you can consider that there were many revolutionary that would there were kind of intellectual one of my favorite is Amil Kabal this picture is interesting because you have Sankara and Company who will kill him at the back laughing so yeah these are people who decide to solve some problems in the way maybe making a coup on the continent so this 1966 Congress of black writers and artists at the sorbonne was really kind of a big change just look at the fact that it was before independence you know Ghana will be independent one year later the first country then all these people meet obviously for change knowing that they're intellectuals knowing that they're in Paris but thinking that they can change the continent just being writers artists getting together so for me it's kind of inspiring one of the figure that is interesting and we'll talk about him later because he's also for me the first therapeutic intellectual is France Fanon Franco comes to the Congress at in September 56 then he resigned from his position as a chief of this medicine unit in algae two months later in November and he joins in February the Army the fln to start fighting you know he gave up also his friends nationality or just before so that meeting that Gathering obviously this is how Saint God defines it because this was after the Bandung the non-aligned difference where black people were able to kind of affirm their own identity you know France Fanon Court also is very important because he's kind of already giving the tone you know the body to body of nature with its culture racism element of the systematic oppression of the destruction of cultural values and the evaluation of sorry it was fast so um yeah so that's why I put him there but they were also very interesting figures in that kind of way as intellectual though there's uh obviously and with the sheikhavara and simonda so actually it was interesting to see also how they perceive all this you know how do you transform societies intellectual why would they go to see Che Guevara and now this is Fanon during the war when it was now really like ready to fight uh here uh now we go back to which is actually like for any connection with the finance um book so I think um this is now where Cinema comes in we wonder if we can't Identify some problem in the society and maybe see if Cinema cannot fix them and this is a case that happened in Cameroon where these business women create kind of drink that will make you bleach like you become white light skin just by drinking uh whatever so he created a stir and then obviously it goes back to the shame the be a shame of your own skin color which is still you know obviously a big issue and that somehow can be addressed you know with the elements Cinema provides meaning you know identification representation self whatever so I think for me it was important that you see in 2022 you have this kind of problem and maybe Cinema has kind of therapy you know for it uh fake Cinema obviously when kovid hit we were hoping that Will Smith will come and he like he hit the aliens you know so we thought he would hit covet so just to say how much American Cinema has made us think that America can do everything and then Will Smith came back hitting instead of hitting covered he was hitting uh what his name his Rock so just to see how kind of vein is Cinema you know then we the idea that um [Music] let's watch this first and the clip of my film is [Music] [Music] up yeah this one mainly is the feeling when you watch a kung fu movie that you're strong I don't know why I don't know where what kind of triggers something in US that make us feel that because we watch a kung fu movie we can fight so for me it's very important because it helps the find what is Cinema you know why do we feel that you didn't get any training you just watch somebody fighting but you feel like you're ready to fight so uh for me question the medium we're dealing with you know and what is it what is it really so many people try to Define it obviously I uh there are a few definitions I liked a lot uh Chris ahmets I took some of his class on semiotics for him it's like a mirror it's like a mirror more faithful than the actual mirror you know so the the way he defines it um then uh no they're not good at that tarkovsky you know that's long but I like when he says that um he here that we we gave up too quickly on immortality for him he sees actually that responsibility of the female kid is really like a penal like you can actually be jailed for making film a certain way so which gives it very important like reality with God I like the Radiology Dimension it's like the cinemas like a radiologist so we actually and for me I Define myself like this like just to be able to show the problems because when you do an x-ray or scanners to show the problem but the one who does the radio the X-ray is not the one who fix the disease you go back to the doctor another one who will actually give the treatment so this is a good diagnostic tool he's not a filmmaker just stand there but I just like the fact that he says that any series of art art is a critical kind of uh act you know really so I think somehow uh I like that you know that when it's not critical it's not really serious I think it was a biologist too but he um uh it's not about the imagining man you know because he's above all the capacity to escape and to the imaginary world that creates a new world in with in which he can finally inflate okay if Cinema itself became like a disease because somehow when you go to Hollywood today you can go they detest movies they put you also like in the doctor like look at this very well you know you can see the heartbeat for this movie and then you can tell this is good because you can cut this part because it's too low so they have all these like hospital kind of to make sure that uh famous success so how they kind of connect it to our biology obviously we are kind of a victim of all this so there's also all this useless Cinema I mean I call you red carpet Cinema uh you know obviously we don't wonder what red carpet has to do with Cinema so it's now very popular in Nigerian films in Cameroon they mix all this idea of celebrity beings and while I like this case because the even if it's unfortunate that in Nigeria they were talking about making 1000 movies per year but that year they didn't see any movie couldn't see Boko Haram coming so how can you make 1000 movie and not one can show something that is happening in Mexico so I felt that somehow Cinema becomes a kind of distraction actually in France they say distraction but something that distracts you from a danger that might actually I think Kobe was the same nobody saw covered coming or maybe somebody did I don't know sold I like this one also because uh this film Good Good Will Hunting the scene with uh my demon and Robin Williams um it's not your fault don't [ __ ] with me all right don't [ __ ] with me Sean not you it's not your fault it's not your fault so this is a scene where actually this guy is critical about Society and he's able to kind of show how useless is to go to school to get a job and everything but then the whole story turns at some point where they ask him what he wants psychologist and then starting making a problem he described as general as collective individual which actually is a problem because we have like Collective disease Collective problems as a society but you don't have a hospital or psychiatric for Collective everybody goes and sees psychiatrist alone so it's really interesting how like when you have repression I'm just giving an example of in France right now where macron is hitting people very hard because they're demonstrating that it's a collective let's say repression and then when you go back and you have trauma you're alone you know with your psychiatrist like if the problem was an individual problem so obviously uh the idea here and maybe we'll just stop very quickly now because um is the idea how do you with Cinema think about brain and reprogramming or whatever so I like this film also a lot Memento Christopher Nolan's first film I think it's somehow a film that is a lot about that really you know most of the time film use um emotions this is the first film I think that use memory to connect with the audience I mean where the guy has a condition and that's what makes him not be able to remember things but you as an audience you you kind of follow the whole thing through memory and the whole idea that you have a friend you don't remember him the next day you don't remember that you had a party last night everything so which is very scary so I thought films that explore limits like this on what we are and how we can relate you know for me are really really important even if you don't want to um [Music] yeah so there are so many things philosopher he wrote many interesting books and the main one is the cries of Montu meaning that he's actually showing the crisis we are as Africans contemporary between the kind of what we're supposed to do what we're being told to do because we've been taught so many things as colonized as Africans as whatever so I just think he's he's explaining how we are kind of in limbo but his first book was about the dialogue and the myth so where he's actually he was actually his thesis of PhD but he was talking a lot about how dialogue is more real than all this uh thing we do which is like a writing or even making films um okay why we love black panthers and all this this is for kids mainly but kids love these superhero because obviously the small in a world of big people so they kind of they call it a rehabilitating hero you know when you had a trauma you know you always want someone to help you kind of go but go further and to be able to pass your trauma so and that's you see most of us will have or have some traumas and sometimes we need a rehabilitating Heroes some dictators use that too okay I think it's almost the end yeah scarf is because we like bad guys no Behavior behavior is very important obviously yes I've seen them is a lot about action but not the kind of action we see we think uh to this image because it's unfortunate but the idea that um Cinema is a call for Action somehow so we have to do something I always feel like watching a movie going back home and sleep is kind of strange yes yeah obviously as you can imagine there are many movies are in malls while you add them [Music] [Applause] I was too bad he was meant by the military [Applause] um [Applause] okay so I just stopped there now this one is really what kind of the whole healing scene in my business the idea that obviously Cinema shouldn't be in malls maybe you should find other places but this specific piece is the kind of an exhibition where we actually take stories you know with people we kind of trauma and then the audience are people also who are kind of sick and then the jury is kind of the specialist the psychiatrist so we are kind of playing our Cinema could maybe be between the audience that are people with a problem and um the jury that are supposed to help and then the film that I also put to be like uh I don't know made in a way that it should actually help so I'll stop there for now I think it was too long [Music] um [Applause] well I don't know where do I start after because after you jump here this is very challenging uh well thanks a lot for a wonderful presentation thanks for sharing your thoughts with us about Society about Africa about Cinema about art in general just take one or two items which you share one of two thoughts maybe more eventually when we are able to exchange it the first thing is I like like pretty much the excerpt from mudimbe about the intellectuals I mean although I mean I realized in the end that uh you you I mean your talk is focusing us this kind of perceptible obsession with intellectuals and while I'm very happy that you're able to bring modimba's definition of his two category of intellectuals that are related to to Medieval concept medieval models I also have some trouble with that uh for a few reasons the first is that uh I find it a little intriguing that modembe would uh draw there's nothing wrong with that but I would not only draw from medieval Church model which is understandable because of his personal trajectory but also that in many ways it seems to not disqualified but at the very minimum forget or ignore other possible categories because from what I understood from his reading from recording of audio uh all this intellectuals as supposedly learned people who've been to school people who are educated in the western world and people who have eventually degrees but as you probably know uh degrees uh don't make us uh intellectuals that's first and second as you probably know as well uh you have you've got many degree holders who are far beyond mediocre if not horrible intellectuals not only because there's no value to what they actually bring to society but also because of the kind of counter value that they tend to promote I think just just take a few examples of uh intellectuals who I hope you agree with me who may not fall within the category of mudimbe because they are not learned uh but also there are people who have brought a major change in the life of their competitors you know pretty well that uh I mean they are educated somebody like these are people who were able because of their art to foresee things that happen to their countries a long time ago as a matter of how we read achieve this novel everything that happened in Nigeria were actually foreseen in his in his books that's one example the second example which I hope I mean you probably know this more than anybody uh but uh Fela and Nicole who is in my view one of the best spirits that was ever produced by Africa it in Matthew I think one of the finest intellectuals that we could ever think about because he's among the first to have clearly stated that cool data were actually very bad things for the continent well except for Ghana thank you JD Rawlings but uh fella was I mean the way challenge uh military rulers in Nigeria the way he was able to to to to to to expose the Hideous face of his Society to his Souls one of it is Shakara but also things like look at just take suffering and smiling I mean isn't it amazing that over 30 years ago he was able to capture the nature by which many African population many African people are able to comfortably suffer while smiling the first time in the same time so I mean this is something that Shaka that that that fellas this soft so it caught many centuries I mean nothing many decades ago and he put it really forward there I will take one or two other example I mean what do we do so many like chicken faculty whatever of yourself uh what do with Mongolia what do we do with uh somebody like using Yahweh for example uh they never wrote both but they seemed to have had a very important impact in the life of their countries every one other aspect uh which I don't think we've actually theorized a lot uh but this is based on my experience as a child and as a grandchild uh I will tell you what what you think about it um you know I I was I was educated by my mother and my grandmother and it's interesting and I'm pretty sure it will share this with me you see that these women especially my grandmother and my mother you would see people come from far away to come and seek advice about specific things they will even call them to come and judge and rule on certain social issues and they bring peace they were never they never went to school but they were able to have an impact on the life of people who were around them thanks to their knowledge you probably know the history of many African Elders who are actually social leaders who did not have any specific traditional responsibilities but they were respected by their people because they were able they were they were real models to everybody and these are people who had real impact either feel that we as in as academics I'm not so intellectuals you see the Nuance there I'm not sure we've been able to render Justice to many of these people and finally [Music] um we see uh day-to-day people who struggle and make significant change is change only made through the Discord or knowledge that you produce or that change can be made through your daily action look at the child who cleans the street in their own in Paris uh look at the I mean you know this look at this elementary schools teachers who were working for missionary schools for in fact almost nothing look at the huge impact that they had in people's life so that's it with the intellectual now talking about the transformation uh I will seek your input from that um it's interesting that you talk about the ability of knowledge and intellectuals to impact and transform society and then you related to cinema I'm actually very happy to bring that because it seems to me that this is uh don't take this as a provocation but it seems to me that it's like a 360 degree transformation and a wonderful way in my view to reconcile with a predecessor whom you spend a big time challenging who is that seminus man that 30 years or 40 years later you are back to examining the possibility for Cinema to upload to uplift and bring social change that's precisely why that's besides that was precisely the aim on the goal that Cinema and his evening School uh were sitting in the 1970s 80s which of course is a concept and practice of Cinema that has its own limit so that today in 2023 you seem to be reconciling and engaging with a management although don't quote him I'm not even sure that they thought about him but I find it fascinating but then my question to you would be uh while we talk about film as a mean for social transformation if that's actually the case uh are we not are we not giving too much power to movies to culture we are we can agree on one thing Cinema and intellectuals can actually foresee because they are power representation Cinema can predict that's what you were telling us today that somebody were asking how did you know that in 2025 we will be in the dark because there is no this camera is in dark totally so while Cinema is able to foresee to predict uh is it actually able to bring that change if it does how does the change happen uh and finally how is change brought institutionally and socially what is our responsibility as artists as academics potentially as intellectuals because we tend to conflate both many academics who've had some have big degrees things that are intellectuals because they go and they go and make noise on TV you know Cameron is a perfect example of that uh yeah they are unable to produce anything which which is sensible so how do we go about that but to end uh while I get your question I would really love to get your impact your feedback about you are this coming together this circle you are back to cement and to I'll just Chatters Cinema is going to transform Africa well how do we do about that thank you okay many challenging points thank you I think the end is actually more interesting for me because you mentioned everything but the topic therapeutic intellectual yeah that's what you forget semen even if he thought about Cinema being a kind of element of transformation me what I see that is different is the concept of the therapeutic intellectual and if I have to kind of Define it a little bit here I took Phenom when I was presenting as an example uh I think the idea that uh the doctor when you go you go to the to a doctor a doctor might not even talk to you he will examine you and you start writing his thing and then yeah so he doesn't really care about what you have to say he doesn't want to lecture you he doesn't think he will get you to your head you know like all this instructor I like even in terms when they there's this difference between instruction you know where they fire you with knowledge that's coming from the church you know the idea on Sunday that the priest will make good Believers you know by telling you all these things and thinking that all these words will end up affecting you it will impact you and you change the society I remember this american guy who's doing the NGO in Cameroon he was telling me that the difference between our NGO and the usual NGO of the French is that they lecture Villages he said when we sing thing they're tired they don't want to work we put vitamins in the food so that they have a lot of energy and they start working so it was not about lecturing hoping that you I would get them through the brain and then I'll trigger some action and transformation so to say that the concept itself of therapeutic is considering the society like he was sick and be also a person who would decide to care about Society that's kind of a kind of an element there and um actually you can even talk about Cinema of care or healing Cinema but the idea that if the relation changes and is not any more about um you talk very well about your grandmother your mother the caring relation where it's not about lecturing you even if there's education for sure the information you need to get but the idea of now embracing this Society with all the handicap we know with all the problem we know and decide that how am I going to like operate as a doctor just to fix you know the patient okay now um Fila Fila two actually I have a piece but I couldn't show it it's too long on filler here he is actually a perfect example but filler was a prophetic intellectual that's what udemy defines very well he sees exactly what's wrong what's right before everybody else what needs to happen but now look at what he did he created he became a polygamist married all his dancer obviously it's not that I encourage that but I think he tried to find a model economic model for its Enterprise you know because he was banned and he had all these dancers and we could see how he was struggling between this whole idea of managing this whole thing the African culture is trying to put in front and coming up with the kind of economic model for me that's what I um I think but definitely he was a prophetic intellectual you know um now when you all the other one you mentioned [ __ ] BTS for me there are the the the instructor you know they are the the other model you know yes they will be maybe like south or somebody but it's clearly that they're resisting the political system they challenging it but very clearly the uh many many people on the ground don't even know them that's really what also a fact um we always talk about this in Cameroon like all the writing of ashila baby nobody knows about in Cameroon and we wonder if you consider your country or your continent or your people in in trouble and you decide to write or to devote your life to fix the problem by writing you know and he doesn't reach them or even the writing itself they don't I don't know how maturely can do it maybe he has no way to do it himself but the idea that that knowledge you produce you've been producing doesn't transform the society you should be wondering at some point why are you doing what you're doing unless you it's not your agenda you decide okay I don't care I'll just write my things and but I imagine that uh if there's a big crisis in a country and everybody is threatening threatening to die whatever everybody should we mobilize to kind of make sure this is whatever the drama of Christ doesn't happen right so the jump yeah yeah yes I mean just to pick on what you're saying it's interesting that you are conceding and actually praising uh filler was there's not a no question about it but in the same time you are not putting down people like [ __ ] Betty I mean because basically both are prophetic except that they have different talents uh mangabity Achebe and Valero and you and whoever they have the specific Talent they are not Engineers they are not doctors they are not journalists my perception is these people perform what they do at their best at their own risk where they transform the society whether it's able to transform Society of not it's a different question so um sorry about that but if we only look at your operational ability of what they do then uh we will in fact that opens up a much bigger problem because as you know these people write in French which is read by if it's very small minority but studies show that novels published in chinuba in Kasai have read by a few million people more than anyone published in French you know and in the case of Hashim bemi for example well uh she writes what is right uh it has to be accessible and second when it's even accessible you need to understand what he said there's anyway there's a piece uh maybe I missed because it was very fast the 1956 it's not the one in Paris it's very interesting that it happens in Paris obviously they all uh and with sengo or being also because I think they want to open the conference or something or closed it but it's set up what you've just mentioned it set up the fact that the intellectual almost connection you know is a french Paris connection first you know when you talk about books about publishing about not anal accessibility it's because that's what was set up that's why it's a model that is in question here so obviously if the idea of having an impact you know obviously is the agenda if because some might not even be uh have that project but the idea here is that um the whole setup I don't even know you mentioned the French language but I'm just saying that being an intellectual you know for clearly you know became actually having that connection you know with France you know having and with the system in France that's what will make you intellectual there are many others I I have the example of yonel manga I just met he's been doing this for 30 years in Cameroon but he just went to Paris to publish his first book in Paris obviously and but he has been resisting this for like 30 years you know and you can see all of a sudden he's known but we've known him all these years but obviously he was with people he was having all these discussions he was you know on on the ground but Paris is what makes you a kind of yeah well again that's very true uh but my opinion is I think we can only blame ourselves if we continue to make Paris the place where we need to publish the people I need to be it's unfortunate but I think the French are not responsible for our making them and their country and their culture the place where we can lose no I'm just saying I just want to make friends this is not a good question I start the whole thing about Africa being an invention you know so we are in the mimicking kind of culture you know when you want to be a filmmaker you'll have to mimic those who have been female before you who most of the time will be Western female curse maybe you look like now we have more from different countries but the whole culture being an invention says you know obviously we at best become that culture you know or we are at least following that culture so I'm just saying it's a kind of identity now and when we talk about the mask at the beginning you know the first film it was the idea and that's what uh piafuso is saying is that an African mask that was taken you know was that was a ritual object Western discourse was put on it you know when it comes back it's a western object so that's what he says very clearly so we shouldn't also deny that you know because that's a kind of a given okay yeah anyway well I mean I agree with you of lots of the things uh but maybe one other thing that we could discuss or even Explore [Music] um is how I mean if you can go beyond uh uh this should I say victimization but let's just take one or two examples uh if you can put Paris or Berlin or by Road or Britain I mean in the 60s or 15 or even into the 80s we're talking about books you had all Parish based publisher and the English system was heinemann London Arabia and whatever but we also have some intellectuals and writers who are local born who did everything on the continent and they've been actually successful and yet and then to your point uh when the others realized that they are so successful then they pick up on them the first on-prem example being kuruma when he publishes it's not French but when it was so successful in the French pick it up and actually quote and go forgot to mention that it was previously published in Maria uh we can also take Musa konati who was publishing in in in in in bamako all his detection novels eventually always in over chicken were taken by French Publishers just because your letter is successful so it's really in my view upon us to create this this system a network that allows us to to be more productive and also to to institutional and colonize our own you are probably familiar with there was this old money was called Professor Obama Jean-Baptiste the this man was so he was so knowledgeable but everybody ignored him you probably remember at the bayani who wrote uh this is our an important figure of UPC he had such memories but nobody knew about him but that said uh what do we do in the face of this um okay I would say that most of um we have again Society transform obviously I don't have expectation from that Society the way it is right now so and again um yeah I don't know but I think I I am I do call it I don't want to say it therapeutic intellectual yeah but I am not a radiologist um I would say uh when you look at uh what's going on you kind of see very clearly that um the model when I mentioned that France Finance the first one he gave up on his French nationality he he gave up in the end went to Algeria he was a doctor he resigned from the hospital and decided to go to war no which he did and and when you read his presentation at this Congress you could see that he was getting there really yeah and he was the other one were Africans he was either martinike so he was kind of French but he decided that so he did a reverse process as the the African process in in looking at what would happen you know you know and and it's very clear that um uh you can see that the the the whole concept of change or transformation became like um not a theater but just a kind of performance yes people would perform being for change yeah I have a question for you uh but don't feel compared to answer but are you trying to say that Beyond an after fan on there is little or no therapeutic or transformative intellectual on the continent is so which one are they no no that's not what I'm saying no I'm just trying to understand I'm saying that I'm just trying to prompt you I think he was in that generation on that generation at that time because the whole idea of being intellectual was so related to the Colonial Master it was because it was a copy of that behavior you mentioned very well the possibilities of having on the continent traditional uh Savvy people who transform the society and we were able to kind of make a change at many many levels which is true you know but I'm talking about this model because it's the model that actually was and is still being replicated you know I always say that even if in Cameroon law traditional law is being kind of acknowledged you don't see anybody saying that I'm a traditional lawyer everybody would say no I'm a lawyer graduate from I don't know University so you can see very well uh the same with the with the medicine because medicine is very important everybody in Cameroon from the bottom cameroonian like with no money with nothing to the president everybody go to a witch doctor to traditional healer yeah everybody but and kovid proved that actually because you know um cameroonian most of the time I don't know for other countries they just follow the whatever the system so when they saw that the white man is dying they said damn so that's you cannot follow them anymore let's go back to our tradition look for Solutions it was the fact that people died in Europe because it was not that they went to their tradition because they wanted but it was like usually just follow you know just follow whatever they do that is good but when they saw that people are dying in Europe in America that's where they start digging in their tradition but what do we have here to do this so you can see very well that um despite this power of um of knowledge this all knowledge the traditional indigenous knowledge um people are not really giving it any value so you don't have any international hospital most of the people you know producer you can go on the street you can see poison mix next to all these medicines whatever nobody is actually like working on it serious no I'm exaggerating but it's not really well organized by the system the way the Western Hospital is organized in Africa and Cameroon so you can see very well the value they give to Traditions but the the trend clearly is to continue producing these intellectual you know so I don't see and and the whole idea of integrating the whole uh therapeutic you know and I like when you mention people coming from very far to seek advice from your grandmother and everybody so I think it's kind of therapeutic of course and obviously where is it happening where are people trained I'm sure that the new generations are doing it anymore so I'm just saying that whatever valuable is there is not really modernized integrated in a way now it could be embraced unless it's validated by Paris looks like Paris is somewhere in so Central and what we all do we are taking that you don't have to mention anybody post-final uh but you don't have to answer as I said sure that people you know I I would because it's just to see that that model was not really followed you know maybe also you know that we have this thing where when people die you feel like they failed you know Cameroon is a country where we are the war of Liberation for Independence and we lost so today everybody's a Trader because that's what pays you can't find out I mean even at 1956 conference yet I mean you you mentioned sengo uh but what about cesare uh because Jose or he was also intellectual uh but rather extremely committed in fact closer to whanau we would say ideologically than what would do so where would you put him because in fact he went he combined both uh well Theory fishing also practice because he was mayor until he died no it's true it's true that sincere and not say he's not single for sure and I think as you said I agree that he was closer to the finals model because obviously he gave up on so many things and he went back to kind of at this level uh be a kind of agent of transformation obviously his writing is more radical and uh than singer um but it's clear also that because he um he was French you know uh it's very difficult for Africans to kind of relate to that because when you start analyzing the failure of Africa I don't like to generalize that but you know let's say people some people feel that their Cameroon is a field State you know so um when you compare obviously you cannot say the same with Martinique because he he didn't go for Independence because you know he knew also that he was it wouldn't work so I think it's really interesting to see how he knew he didn't have much room and he preferred to stay radical but also knowing that he won't be able to do much but he's a good model I agree coming back to the therapeutic and also the transformative intellectual how do you uh how do you assess uh the the collaboration to put it mildly uh between well academics maybe not intellectuals and political power in post-colonial States for example for me that's really where you come what it comes down to actually somehow because the transformation is being either blocked or implemented by the political system somehow so it's very difficult to to be a kind of transformative agent without having to confront you know the political state but at least to conceive it you know so because people don't have a model I always say that um when you know how much hope the Sankara the rowlings produce in African population and even now the crew in Mali the kind of produce hope you know um very few people have been able to produce and I also wonder how little theory of Revolution you have I mean practical and so you still people want to do the ocean this one you do one two three four five you don't have much like one you want to change like the way they did despite the success at least popular success they had you don't find it much because most of the intellectual are good Christians or good Muslims I guess so should I take from you that uh you know in order to be to be able to transform you can only confront uh can you not only in a way collaborate and bring it transformation not only but this is one option yeah but I think I give back the model of the doctor yeah the doctor is just committed to heal you you know even without you can say no you at least you could be concerned but I'm just saying he's he's all about talking too much he just he just active and come up with knowledge obviously he studied to be able to make sure he reverse the process that is harming you maybe I mean maybe there are questions from the audience or from colleagues online uh if they have any I suspect there will be many does it work yeah uh yeah first of all thank you very much I was because time is limited I'm very sorry so that we open up now for some questions and maybe before I open up maybe you can make like one statement bringing it everything you have been discussing was a lot about the intellectuals and bringing back to cinema again I was missing a little bit the link in I mean along the discussion so can you make it a little bit more concrete then again okay so and then we opened part of the presentation I did obviously I had to go very fast because I felt that I was taking too much time uh it's very clear that when I mentioned for example the physiology you know in in a in in cinema meaning that uh the heartbeat the all the emotions being produced and oh that is actually engaging your body you know physiologically you cry you so Cinema obviously uh and um uh they say it's kind of immediate you know it's almost taking the medium out so we start leaving Cinema like real life that's when I was mentioning the gangster uh Community around the cinemas is because actually uh it's not Cinema anymore you know whatever values are there able to so for me that it's very clear and one also mentioned the rehabilitating hero Batman Superman for children mainly but for everybody it's very clear that uh Cinema is is because of identification you know has kind of elements that make sure that you you get into the thing the things and I always like to mention Nazi movies I remember I went to Berlin and then I would try to watch them and they said you cannot watch them I'm like who are you I'm a filmmaker you you cannot so you think when I'll watch it I'll kill everybody what is going to happen so it was very clear that people think Cinema do things you know they know I mean they know I'm not sure even who they are but I'm just saying they think Cinema do things so when they stop somebody like me you know not watching a movie is it to protect the society against me after watching the film so clearly Cinema is seen as something that kind of changed people or make people do things you know um so that's one of the things Hollywood use it for capitalistic purposes that's why they want to make sure they test the movies uh even in the screenwriting process um uh when you in a movie you kind of identify he's the killer it's actually because he told you because they don't want you to feel frustrated that you're too stupid but it's kind of structuring your brain in a way where you kind of get used to the known and they say that the unknown is actually the worst movie in people's brain you can make meaning that um the Next Generation who are used to those structure narrative structure would not be able to deal with new problems because when it's different you know obviously when they don't know they give up that's where you become a bad filmmaker because they don't know so they are known the unexplored is really completely uh out so we kind of always dealing with what we know and that's what is being recycled and voila but thank you very much the question because then people in the zoom can also hear your question so we didn't want a YouTube channel good evening gentlemen thank you for the vital discussion that you guys have highlighted here uh I wanted to first touch on the 1956 conference and talk about James Baldwin's reflection of that conference because I think that's reflection is often overlooked because he wasn't a member of the panels who were speaking but his americanism captured the sense of ambivalence that perhaps is more reflective to today than those questions that are being raised in that conference and then postponed I would say there's definitely Steve Biko the medical student who drops out and becomes radical and goes on to create his own Clinic against the apartheid government and manages to raise donors to fund the clinic and I think that's something worth and then the last point that I had here yeah and so a my sense of the struggle was is that if we might compare the struggle in Africa and Europe I would say that the struggle in Africa sometimes can be perceived as wanting to fit in but I would say it's a struggle of presence which is very different from the struggle of the European today which is more a struggle for authenticity and so when people are struggling to be present of course then they want to be integrated into a greater Nollywood or the idea that in South Africa when a big American pop star comes to films that comes to play Nelson Mandela that's when the movie is really happening um and so I and I want you guys to reflect on that okay okay I'll go for now so I like very much the Steve Biko and the black Consciousness model which is clearly a therapeutic intellectual sorry I forgot him obviously I haven't done my list and maybe you're helping me now completing that list definitely because obviously it was at the same level as far now in terms of dealing with working what is going on in in in our minds as black people um and I think uh I like the final the uh Baldwin and uh and Richard Wright conflict because they would think it was a kind of tension one was suspected to be CIA the other one was supposed to be supposed to start to be KGB so anyway what I liked about the whole thing is that it was a kind of a time of all these things you know um and um despite all these differences I think Richard Wright threatened to leave the conference at some point but I think despite all these tensions um Africa became independent you know that was one of the goal how was it really Independence still but still I think it was the energy they put together to say okay we will get together and really at least call for change four years later and one year later was Ghana and then two years later it was other African countries so I think somehow despite all this you know um now when you mentioned the the presence um actually uh it's true that um and I touch it in some way by talking about the red carpet you know being a real culture the marketing the which also is somehow a big distraction uh and um again it's a kind of struggle and between the wannabes because we kind of coming from a colonial kind of mind and those who really are interested in doing something with the community and and I think the same medium you know is actually for those two things I always say everybody every text is not literature you know every image is not Cinema so now depending on how you define Cinema obviously but I don't think we are doing the same professional in the same profession you know those who go for red carpets I don't think we have much to to talk about you know um good evening everybody good evening thank you very much for your extensive um this course I have a few questions so firstly I when you mentioned about fella and his works it really caught my interest because I've been seeing a lot of things about him I'm Nigerian originally and I've seen I've been to svela Shrine and all of that and my question is where do you think the meeting point can be for the cinema and the Academia because one of the papers one presentation I made last semester was on Nollywood as a change Ambassador a positive change Ambassador because I've been in the Nollywood space for quite some time before coming here and I've seen the challenges that we've gone through as a film industry because the government does not support the industry basically and you know how the industry started from Market people basically traders who decided to come together to start an industry and it has grown to be the third largest in the world currently and just a few days ago there's been like a massive Revolution on one of the films that was released in on Netflix it was released and the viewership was really great but it mirrored the society exactly how it's happening currently in Lagos and the political space and the posters of the Billboards was torn from Todd Midland bridge by the government so it was a whole revolutionary thing and I think that Nollywood is doing or I would say I'm concentrating on Nollywood because that's what I'm really familiar with it's showing that change can be is possible because people are seeing it and saying oh yes they tore it down because it's a reflection of what they are doing the film just portrayed exactly what's happening in government so my question now is where do you think that the Academia and the cinema can have a point of um convergence that can cause a revolutionary change so he wrote from screen from you wrote a book you know about from well text on screen or yes I thought he was asking you quite you the question well thanks very much it's very interesting uh uh because um you know the thing about politicians is that uh while they they tend to have to threaten and to demolish and to downplay a artist then at the same time so afraid of them you know uh one interesting example is ay the the the the the essential movies and I remember that uh when Google published one of his novels I think it was either the River Beach I don't know which one it was uh the book was censored and they bought all copies of that book because they thought that is actually I mean the perception is that it's actually reflecting reality so they bought all the copies of this book and the same thing happened with people like mongobachi of course you know that the the best way to advertise something is to try to censor it so well I mean back to your question why where does Academia and and Cinema can meet and create um uh a hopefully Revolution um I think that um Academia uh we know that uh Academia academics produce knowledge they produce and share knowledge and that is why education is actually the most uh well also the church but we can talk about that but academics can really transform Society in a very positive way that's why in my view if in a society there is hate there is war there's lack of respect it means that in many respects a school and education has failed because if you are not taught at school bio academics about how to respect a woman how to respect your brother how to respect something that's different from you it means that there's something totally wrong in a specific case of Nigeria the Hollywood phenomenon is very interesting in that but it says it shows that in spite of the neglect uh people artists and Ordinary People can actually take off their life into their hands and build an entire industry out of it to the point of being perceived as a threat and you know he should not even pretty well uh thanks Nollywood oh there's an entire industry there is department of theater and drama that exploding many Nigerian universities so this is in my view something that was unexpected but which the society is building upon to hopefully uh apply is a systematic change it is even more interesting that uh thanks you know people now realize that something can come out of Africa and really hit the world you know because Netflix is not it's not a humanitarian company he's not an NGO he's dead so I mean they can only put their money where they know there's going to be a return it's not it's not like a a remote return it has to be immediate return so if we have been able to hit that and in fact I'm actually also very pleased that for the past five or ten years now when you fly on planes you have options you can watch some African movies which was not the case like 15 years ago so I mean in academics what academic economics do I would say even more Cinema industry as an industry than than academics it brings Blends all this together and puts Africa in in a web that was not seen before and that is why I was we say thank you in Nigeria thank you Nollywood thank you uh Cinema from Ghana also Ethiopia which actually a huge thing you know so to put it in summary uh entertainment does not only entertainment it can also be transformative also be in many ways therapeutically mirror that Society show the ones which only in ways that only artists can can do yeah okay okay Netflix is capitalism you know so Nollywood is capitalism so I don't know what is so exciting about it maybe except the fact that people can feed the family you know with the kind of a sector that was not really taken into account you know where people are struggling you mentioned a film on Netflix so films on Netflix they don't have an author you don't remember the director so what's what happened when you put your film on Netflix it next thing it's not anymore because it's a Netflix film so you don't see the change so it means that any film on Netflix you don't care it's Netflix you know so they managed to erase the authors those who actually have a specific voice you know it becomes a Netflix fan you know and how can Netflix create a revolution you know which when you look at you know exactly obviously as you say it very well it's about money okay uh maybe I don't know if you know the business model they come to Nigeria they put 10 million dollars in a Nigerian film uh or series they expect to have I don't know 10 million Nigerian subscription for one month paying ten dollars so every month they're making 10 or 100 million they'll do it once you know but then every year for the next I don't know how many years it'll get monthly they're 10 or 100 Millions that's what they do obviously Netflix doesn't have a production unit where they actually think about what's being written they kind of work with some producers but very clearly you know um I don't believe I don't think and that's maybe me that this structure are there for a narrative healing or whatever you talk about here it's about money I was in Colombia when they released narcos obviously everybody was calling me that you're in danger you're in Colombia I see narcos and then it's like dangerous for you I'm like where I mean I was going to keep dough to choco in the bus and everything I don't remember even encountering any drug dealer just to say that obviously content is important it's not just about industry because again you know yes all right giving jobs is always important you know but I'm just saying it's also about what are we saying I like failure a lot I think filler made 20 songs I don't know but each one of the 20 charts songs change something or was talk about something nobody talked about before you know even the U.N never say that African country were corrupted he's the one who said it first and he was put in jail you know actually I think I believe they killed him but still just to say that content is important I don't even like that word content because it takes out the meaning behind what you do you know so the name disappears the topic disappears kind of it becomes just like content you know and at the end of the day you have the industry in the industry yeah many so obviously if he's at that price that we will have an industry for me obviously I can't buy into it you know I like when you you say you know these filmmakers you knew what they were about in their mind like failure but now it's Netflix even Nollywood but people say it's an Hollywood film I'm like nobody talk about ah this specific film this happened one book can change your life like one film can change your life but I don't see this film they talk about them in plural nollywood's films you know so it's just like a presence you know somebody will serve my presence but they didn't do the way it's just something that is there in space you know anyway obviously and I went to answer your question I think somehow it's really I think one film and maybe this one was the one who created Revolution but it has no author it's a Netflix thing you know and I don't think Netflix is about Revolution because if that information goes very far Nigerian government will stop Netflix Netflix will change the story because at the end it's about money so it won't be any if I know fighting the Netflix will never have that you know kind of attitude that's just what I can say yeah there's online there's one question it's already very late it's a quarter it's quarter to ten so maybe we can I can read the question from uh from online and then you had a question before yeah this is what I'm um but they didn't write it here but then they have to wait if they don't use the official way okay let me read this one cyborg bio us I would like to hear a bit more about the philosophical ground of Cinema especially the way Piccolo brings ancestral cosmological framework into play giving the example of Lee senon is there another let's then take two or three together and see how we can maybe mix a bit also the answers otherwise the answers the questions and the answers were very long he would like to know how much trauma studies help you Jumper in this search for your definition of the therapeutic and healing and from Gilbert he said you have done interesting work on the African diaspora in Colombia for instance and I was hoping you will share some in the opening fragment which you started with in relation to therapeutic dimension of Cinema in your diasporic project I guess you encountered different types of knowledge producer that made you retain African stories African philosophy or African personality or even Africans future those who resend those your recent cinematic work with the diaspora those who are recent cinematic work with diaspora have a therapeutic function for you and perhaps for those with whom you have collaborated in your recent projects Gilbert thank you so actually I'll start with that one because actually unfortunate I have the clip but I skipped it sorry but the idea of going to Colombia obviously I call the female the idea of going to Colombia 10 000 kilometers away from Cameroon and meeting people there were actually you kind of connect in a very basic way in town and then in the bush but it looks like you're in Cameroon but what was really interesting is I didn't go to make a film but I decided to make a film and obviously just this this decision of making a movie is what kind of object would it be so there's one thing I create in the film was what they call the missing archives I was told about stories about like cimarron's like Local Heroes and how to produce some clip of them that didn't exist obviously it was just a story he told me so one element was to create this missing archive and then the other thing was also as I said to Define what we do I cannot be an acknowledges because I'm African like the kind of are so how do I go there what do I show what do I not show so this whole selection process I remember I tried to get money for post-production for this film and he said no we don't understand entry because it's not very clear I said it will never be clear because it's clear that I will never tell the story to or Western audience because what happened when they were to film themselves in Colombia I once talked about them like these people you know so obviously I'm part of these people so I I will make a way where I cannot put the story like I was a foreigner and then again I want to show it to Cameroon people know that there are people in the diaspora that kind of you have a connection with so obviously the whole structure of the the the the the the object the documentary object you know has to be original and different so it's very clear that um uh it's still a quest because it's not perfect but you think this is something attempt to produce something under that condition um to talk about uh um the question the first question naked reality traditional ancestral stuff um obviously in my family I use a kind of woman secret society concept called muvungu I didn't know much about movungu when I met the film I already in books because I read that if you are mine you watch your ritual you're killed if you're sinned by a woman anyway so obviously it was very risky I couldn't even find people practicing it but later on I kind of met a woman who was kind of initiated and I interviewed her I also had it here but it's too long to show I interview her um and then because she was a kind of hermaphrodite who were thrown in the bush and she survived because she was picked up by a grown woman and then raised her in the bush but now she's kind of normal and she was initiated to that ritual and that's kind of she did the contrast among the constitution of the ritual uh uh so but to be very specific in my other film naked reality I couldn't show it's the science fiction but it's a whole idea that what if in the future will have this disease bad luck will be a disease you know like you have a fever you had bad luck so because they know how to fix it you know like ah bad luck just do this one so this because we don't see the future with these elements you know we just see the future with technology whatever but you know maybe because today when you are you have bad luck they say go to the Village go wash yourself with I don't know water like this with these plants but we don't know the process really clearly but if in the future bad luck becomes just like something we know you just have to say hello to an ancestor you know then you feel like ah that bad luck is gone you know so I'm just saying uh I speculate with these things without African Traditions but in the future and putting it in a kind of Science Fiction uh process cyber question and the trauma no I haven't studied anything about trauma when you're in Cameroon you are in permanent [Laughter] foreign Cameroon so I don't need to go there anymore one last question thank you very much for the presentation uh now I'll pick it from the last Point trauma and everything but it's not about trauma um considering the fact that most African countries still suffer suffer from post-colonial anxieties and effects and the current precarious state of most African countries I'll do Cinema become therapeutic in Africa since we've been talking about therapeutic intellectualism so how the cinema help Africa where an average person does not even have a television and a lot of things are still in place so I'll do Cinema become a therapeutic tool for Africa then uh number two we talk about different types of uh intellectualism we looked at failure as much as we look at Fela as a prophetic there are some school of thought that will look at the music of fella anikulakbokuti and say it's therapeutic however the question now is does therapeutic intellectualism we talk about transformation intellectualism prophetic and everything does it take precedence from all this form of intellectualism and if yes how does it thank you very much okay well I don't think uh though all forms of intellectualism in my view are very complementary I don't think they exclude each other uh because really for us to take give credit to all the intellectual we invest their energy in producing these thoughts values and also very much action into what uh they they want to do remember I said that uh intellectuals actors I mean we they have different talents so they perform to the best for their abilities depending on where they want to go depending on where and how they see the society so I mean the short answer is no they are not mutually exclusive we can you can they exist next to each other no when you ask how Cinemark could be therapeutic I mean I I looked at more how it could be a disease but how you could actually harm us I mean at least what Cinema does to us the whole problem for me is just mimicking Cinema done by people here and there instead of trying to produce Cinemas just from uh an intention that is very clear the let's say um I always say that Cinema was invented in Africa you know what is Cinema they say Cinema is telling stories with pictures and sound so I don't know if you had experience somebody telling you a story where nothing happened back home right nothing happened because he just left his house came here but the way is telling you the story obviously I don't want to say it's therapeutic but it could be kind of an experience where you see that is talented of delivering a story kind of affects you in a certain way so I'm just saying um the idea of being able to tell a story without even looking at the story itself just the ability to tell a story in a certain way obviously has a kind of impact you know a feel good impact whatever it could be but I'm just saying uh uh Cinema is not something that is alien from from Africa so we shouldn't separate sometimes you know because of Technology camera we start thinking that it's not something you know that is in African culture basically I mean basically saying Cinema is narration the ability to tell a story with pictures well yes with or without pictures [Music] I think we have to come to an end I'm very sorry but um let me thank you very much and maybe thank you very much for giving this great start of our semester term here we had a good discussion tonight that we can continue I recommend everybody to read the text written by professor chiap and also see all the films watch all the films of Jean-Pierre Piccolo maybe you want to mention the new site yes okay today they will ask you to pay but send your email first and then we'll see what happens okay so um please I invite you also to thank our two discussions for tonight and in the name of the cluster thanks for coming and thanks for sharing your ideas and the discussion thank you so much okay thank you [Applause]